Tirunelvlei Boy Studying in IIM-IndoreTirunelvlei Boy Studying in IIM-IndoreA Blog To Express and not to Impress by a Tirunelvelian Articles
Indians in Time Top 100
2008-05-01 21:28:00 Sonia Gandhi, Indra Nooyi and Ratan Tata find themselves in this year's 100 Most Influential people list prepared by Time . For knowing the complete list, do visit here. More About: India , Indians , Current Events
Ban Harbhajan for slapping Sreesanth
2008-04-25 22:32:00 If it is true that Harbhajan slapped Sreesanth , BCCI should take firm action against him. However bad Marco Materazzi taunted Zidane in the world cup, Zidane's head butt was not justified (This is in a sport that is much more violent than cricket). Similarly whatever Sreesanth had done to invoke Harbhajan, a slap is unwarranted and not justified. BCCI should take firm action after a quick and proper enquiry. He should be banned for at least a few matches and a huge fine should be laid on him. Weed By this slap, Harbhajan has let himself down and made the whole nation to doubt his earlier actions during the Australian controversy. He has also given fodder to the likes of Mathew Hayden who has already called him 'an obnoxious weed'. Now even the Indians would start asking whether he is really an obnoxious weed to cricket? Expect the Australians to get back on Harbhajan with full force. Indian Premier League But during this controversy there will be one group of people who will... More About: Cricket , Opinion
A Sport with Balls and Bats But with no Pitcher
2008-04-03 20:20:00 That is how New York Times described Cricket in its article. It has been a dream of ICC and every cricket fan that Cricket spreads its wings all over the world and especially in cash-rich USA. So the esteemed New York Times' coverage of Cricket is surely good news. With this coverage and the inauguration of cricket league among school students in New York, cricket has taken its initial baby steps in US. Cricket League On Wednesday, the Department of Education in New York inaugurated cricket as its newest league sport, with about 600 high school students. With this, New York becomes the only public school system in the nation to offer competitive cricket. No one is expecting the game to overtake baseball, football or soccer in popularity there any time soon, but a modest increase in interest in the sport won the attention of Eric Goldstein, who is the chief executive for school support services and oversees sports programs for the Department of Education. Future... More About: Sport , Bats , Balls , Pitcher
Twitter: the next Big Thing?
2008-03-31 20:41:00 While the media believes that Facebook is going to be the next big thing in Web Technology , the tech circles have started questioning that belief. These doubts arise from the recent user fatigue observed from the social networking websites, the increasing popularity of Twitter and few niggling problems in Facebook. Facebook Vs Twitter Twitter that started off as a micro blogging platform, has now started to encroach people's time from social media sites too. Facebook (and Orkut) provided us an opportunity to get into a conversation with your friends and peers. But unlike Twitter, you can interact with only one person at a time(that is, more like a email). But in Twitter, you get an opportunity to interact with all of your followers and thereby increasing the chances of a meaningful communication that happens real time but still thought provoking and intellectual. Twitter has brought its own blogging fatigue as Scoble recently reported in his blog. But I was still unconvin... More About: Thing
YouTube Awards 2007
2008-03-23 16:22:00 YouTube awards is said to be the new Emmy's and the next Oscars-cum-People's choice awards put together. Take a look at nominees in each category - http://www.youtube.com/ytawards07 and decide for yourself whether YouTube awards is worth those words. The nominees and winners of You Tube awards are so astonishing that you would not believe that they are user generated content, produced with no profit motive in mind. Second Annual YouTube awards for the year 2007 was announced 2 days ago. The winning videos show how simple people could produce amazing videos with innovation and a little luck. The awards were first organized in 2007 to "call out some of the most popular videos and let the users choose which ones deserve some additional recognition". The 2007 awards comprised twelve categories: Adorable, Comedy, Commentary, Creative, Eyewitness, Inspirational, Instructional, Music, Politics, Series, Short Film and Sports Notable Winners: Best eyewitness video was the e... More About: Youtube , Technology , Awards , Current Events
Tweetup : Chennai Twitter Meet-Up
2008-03-21 20:20:00 Twitters in Chennai are meeting tomorrow at Amethyst Cafe for a casual meet up. If you twitter, don't miss this event since you can get to meet early tech adopters of India. Don't even need to make a guess with regard to organizer of the meet-up. It is Kiruba, who is behind Chennai's first Twitter Meet -Up. He was the one who organized Chennia's Blogger Meets in the earlier days, thus setting up a trend for other Indian cities to follow. For more details visit http://tweetup.pbwiki.com/ Personally, I would have loved to attend the event. But Coming from Tirunelveli, just for the Twitter Meet-Up is next to impossible. So, I am missing the meet-up. :( More About: Twitter
Goodbye IIM Indore
2008-03-21 09:51:00 IIM Indore is one of the few places on earth where only a few could resist falling in love with the place. And a single post is surely not enough to share the fun and amazing experiences that one has in the hillock that never sleeps. In 2 years, there were few things that amazed me, a huge number of things that I am going to miss and an infinite number of things that i loved about the campus.IIM Indore is a campus where things/people can never stop amazing you. Once I landed in IIM Indore, the first thing that amazed me was the wonderful, down-to-earth, intelligent people you get to meet in the campus. And the people never stopped amazing me in my 2 years there. And I can vouch that most of them is going to make big in their lives.After living in IIM Indore for 2 years, everybody would have their unique hundreds of things that they are going to miss. My List would include Late night Maggis, Alive at 4am Work Style, Always 'Busy' GTalk Status,Thousands of movies and Hundreds of Ser... More About: Goodbye
Beware of what you share online
2008-03-13 03:21:00 What would be you reaction on seeing the information from your social networking profileprinted on a newspaper article, without your permission? There are a thousands of articles on the net advising us caution on sharing personal information on social networking websites like Orkut, Facebook, Myspace, etc. But still, today's New York Times article on Ashley Alexandra Dupre - Woman at the Center of NY Governor Eliot Spitzer's Downfall managed to surprise me on the amount of information that was used from Ashley's Myspace page. With Ashley spending the last few days out of the public eye, the New York Times uses the myspace profile information as the basis for most of their article. A Sample below: She left ?a broken family? at age 17, having been abused, according to the MySpace page, and has used drugs and ?been broke and homeless.? I don't know whether it is legal to use information from the social networking profile page without the owner's permission but it is not sure... More About: Online , Share , Beware
D.Viswanathan, Thanks for the fun!!!
2008-03-11 22:08:00 Hindu reports that the two campuses of Anna University in the city ? MIT Chromepet and Guindy campus ? will be declared ?tobacco-free? zones today. Sorry for my Deja-Vu! But there has been a ban on sale and use of tobacco products, including cigarettes, beedis, and chewable tobacco products such as pan masala and guthka, even before I entered the campus on June, 2002. In my four years in the campus, I have never seen any body selling or using tobacco products in public. [Thanks to the punishment that was swift and tough] And D. Viswanathan, who likes his photo on the front page of newspapers, uses No-Smoking Day(March 12) to get his name on the front page. He has proudly announced to the press that Anna University is the first educational institution in the State to give effect to such a ban, when it has been there for ages. But what he fails to mention is that Anna University is the only campus where cell phones are banned and students are not allowed to wear t-shirts in campus ... More About: Tamilnadu
5 reasons for Supporting Hillary Clinton
2008-03-11 20:18:00 In India, you rarely vote for a person because you like him. Rather the vote is decided on the basis of whom you hate the most. So, Seeing the plethora of eligible and likable Presidential nominees that an American voter has, makes me jealous. This kicked off an keen interest in nomination elections especially in the close contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama for Democratic Party Presidential Nomination. Right from the early days of the nomination process, i developed a liking for Hillary Clinton and would have signed myself as a volunteer in her campaign if i was in US. Since i belong to 2 groups - Youth and Techie that forms a key supporter base of Obama, I thought i would reason out my logic for being different. 1. Obama Will win the Democratic Presidential nomination For both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, Becoming the U.S. President is not only a dream but an obsession. But with the relative young age of Obama(46 years), this obsession would not end even if h... More About: Reasons
Placement '08 @ IIM Indore
2008-03-08 15:34:00 Campus Placements are always a great experience in anyone's lives. It is the time when you are unsure of your future and have a thousand of questions in your heart - whether I will be placed? If so, where? What will be my salary?, etc.. Studying in an elite institute like IIM Indore has an advantage that you can be sure about getting a job offer. Only Question would be whether you will get your dream profile in the dream company with a dream salary. But this time, the situation was different. With Sub Prime Crisis and precarious state of US Economy, rumors were flying around that a huge number of Investment Banks & foreign companies(Day Zero Companies) were not going to turn up in IIM - Ahmedabad, IIM - Bangalore and IIM - Calcutta. So we were worried whether this would have any cascading effect on IIM Indore. But thanks to an awesome work done by IIM Indore Placement committee, most of the students were happy with the offers they received. Highlight of the Placement '08 in I...
Upcoming Events - This Week
2008-02-25 14:02:00 As I have said in one of my earlier posts(Google Updates), Facebook-style Open Social Applications is expected to go live on orkut this week. Personal ly I have been expecting Open Social Applications in Orkut for a very long time. Hope it happens as announced and Opensocial applications in Orkut are as good as Facebook applications. Google's competitor, Microsoft is expected to release a software that may change the world. Unlike regular PR pitches, this announcement is extra special due to confession of famous Tech Blogger Robert Scoble that he shed tears on seeing the software. Techcrunch predicts that Microsoft is either going to offer Opensource on Feb 27 or announce worldwide telescope on Feb 27. But nobody sure what it is going to be. This update is Personal. IIM Indore is having its placement week till February 29th So my Career and my future might be decided in this crazy week. So keeping my fingers crossed. More About: Events , Week , Upcoming
Ready to buy TATA Nano Online???
2008-02-24 15:17:00 Conventional automobile wisdom says that a car dealer is always required to complete the transaction and a web based option can be just an information window. It can never really be an alternative to a ' brick-and-mortar' dealer. But TATA Nano has already broken a similar conventional automobile wisdom by coming out with a car which is priced at 1 lakh Indian rupees ($2500). It may as well break the conventional automobile wisdom once more. As per the recent blog post by TATA Nano team, it is seriously considering online car sales option and is asking the comments from people to help them design the right service. All the market pundits(including me) expected the People's car to be revolutionary not only with regard to its manufacturing but also with regard to its distribution model. But I never expected the e-commerce to be a part of that distribution model. One More Nano-lution. Hats off to TATA Nano Team! More About: Online , Ready , Tata , Tata Nano
Don't Complain about 'Commercialization' of Cricket
2008-02-24 12:09:00 When the IPL auction took place, there were hundreds of blogs complaining about the commercialization of cricket, Amit Verma in his post in India Uncut gives a proper reply to these people who complained about Commercialization. He explains clearly why it is us who are responsible for the cricket being the only sports in India and why it is us who will be responsible for the death of Test match cricket when it happens.Excerpts...'Wherever there?s big money floating around, politicians emerge and start squealing. The recent auctions at the Indian Premier League have roused the ire of both the Left and the Right of Indian politics. On the right, the inimitable Balasaheb Thackeray has described the IPL auctions as the ?gambling of industrialists?. On the Left, Gurudas Dasgupta is complaining that this will make ?every youngster not a good sportsman but a man hungry for money.?'The above passage is just the introduction from the column, for the rest visit 'There is nothing wrong in ... More About: Cricket , Current Events
Annual Venture Capital Investment Skyrockets to 166% in 2007
2008-02-23 11:19:00 On a 2004 survey on impact of private equity in UK, 77% of companies said that without private equity, their business would not have existed at all or would have developed less rapidly. But this critical component - Private Equity, needed for the survival of entrepreneurs ,was missing for a long time in the India n economy.Good news is that things have started changing. A recent report by Dow Jones Venture Source brings out the huge increase in the number of deals and the amount invested by the venture capital funds in India.Venture capitalists invested around $928 Million in 80 deals in entrepreneurial Indian Companies in 2007, the highest total ever.Some interesting statistics from the report Nearly 48% of all venture financing deals in India were for Information Technology (IT) companies.The most popular recipients of venture capital in the IT industry were companies in the Web-heavy "information services" sectorService-oriented companies in India -- both in the technology fields ... More About: Investment , Venture Capital
IPL vs ICL vs EPL
2008-02-20 18:35:00 According to you, Which of the three leagues - Indian Premier League, Indian Cricket League and English Premier League is going to be the most popular one in India?My Answer: Indian Premier League for the next 7-9 years and English Premier League from then on.The question - 'Which is popular among the two existing cricket leagues in India?' is a no-brainer. The ICL may have been the first off the block, but the fact that players signing a contact with ICL bring their career to a halt means very few stars would be signing with them in the future. And IPL provides the cricketers with a better, if not lucrative option. Since only one entity owns all the teams, the capital base of the ICL is also not expected to be huge, preventing it from future expansion.The recent buzz for IPL shows clearly the huge popularity that Indian Premier League is going to enjoy. But the real competition for IPL comes from English Premier League. Though soccer as a game is not as famous as cricket in In...
Indian Children are not safe - Physical Abuse
2008-02-18 12:18:00 This is the first of the series of posts under the topic - "Indian Children are not safe". Read the introductory post at "Indian Children are not safe".Some of us are lucky in our childhood days to get parents who understood us. But others, the unlucky ones had a rough childhood... They have been abused either physically or physiologically or sexually. Sadly these abused ones constitute the majority rather than the minority group in India.Most of us(including me) had been smacked in our childhood days (sometimes by cane, belts, slippers, etc.) in the name of 'disciplining'. But the sad fact is that there is a huge amount of scientific evidence contrary to the common belief that physical punishment encourage discipline in children. Sometimes, it is the parents' frustrations and their inability to raise their children that finds a manifestation in the form of beating them or causing physical harm rather than 'disciplining'.Indian society, being a society with a high power dist... More About: Abuse , Physical , Safe
Where is Stanford University of India?
2008-02-14 13:23:00 Right from the day, TATA Nano was revealed in Auto Expo, the question - 'Why such innovative products are generally missing from India n market?' has been haunting me. Why does Entrepreneurship & Innovation has always been belonged to 'all talk and no action' category? What are the barriers to innovation and entrepreneurship in India? And is there anybody working on those barriers so that the future entrepreneurs do not have to face them?Pranav in his recent article in Startup Dunia lists down the missing pieces of Indian entrepreneurial ecosystem, the foundation on which hundreds of innovation should have happenedNon-Existent Early Stage FundingInability to attract and hire good talentSpark or Tipping Point that sets Indian Entrepreneurial scene in fire.Add to this A general lack of political initiatives trying to create an ecosystem that breeds innovation. [In India, Entrepreneurship is never an electoral issue, while in US, Barack Obama has already promised to take all st... More About: University , Stanford , Stanford University
MacBook Air in India
2008-02-13 13:58:00 When Steve Jobs revealed the World's Thinnest Laptop - MacBook Air in MacWorld Conference & Expo in January 15, 2008, I thought it would take a few years for the product to hit the India n market. I was planning to save enough money in the meantime, so i could be one of the first persons to buy it in India. But today's news on CNN-IBN disrupted all my well laid out plans.MacBook Air and Time Capsule, the latest products from the staple of Apple Inc. is expected to hit nationwide franchises and retail outlets in India within the next two weeks. Personally I am at odds on how to interpret this action by Apple: whether to intrepret it as a mark of Growing Economic Clout of India (as our Indian Media would like to believe) or A Classic Situation of a Miscalculated Supply that has outstripped the Demand. Whatever it is, I am not complaining!Hope the good times continue for India with regard to other latest Apple Products.P.S: Can anyone explain the reason for Rs.25,000/- Price Dif... More About: Technology , Macbook , Macbook Air
Indian Parties Need Internal Democracy
2008-02-13 06:02:00 We, the India ns take huge pride in the claim that India and USA are the two greatest democracies in the world - one country has the oldest democracy while the other has the largest. But differences between these two democracies have never been this acute, as in recent times.In one country, a huge democratic process is going on to select the Presidential candidate. And the whole world media is going gaga about it. Hundreds of Party men are voting to choose the person, who is going to lead them in the elections and every person in the party are given the option to have their say.But in the other country, one high powered committee of the party decides the Prime Ministerial Candidate. [Read Indian Party declares PM Candidate.] Even this looks democratic, when it is compared to the selection process of the opposing party, where the Prime Ministerial Candidate is decided in 10, Janpath.In a recent beautiful article 'The Indian Chromosome', Islamabad-based freelance columnist Dr.... More About: Politics , Parties , Democracy
Google Updates!
2008-02-10 21:23:00 No company has impressed me as Google has done. Their newer products has never stopped amazing me. And Google continues this tradition with these latest news from its blog. 1. Know India's Hottest Trends:Want to know a snapshot of Indians' collective mind, visit Google Trends - India and come to know the fast rising searches of the day. Find out who is popular, Shahrukh Khan or Amitabh Bachchan, Sachin Tendulkar or Sania Mirza, Bharti Airtel or Vodafone, TATA or Reliance. Read more @ What's India searching for Online?.2. Death of Elections Talk Shows???This was the question that raised in my mind when i saw the integration of Google Maps with Twitter[Asking what is Twitter, read about it here]. Hearing(reading) what people like you and me have to say about Super Tuesday (in just 140 characters) was much more interesting than hearing all that nonsense in Election Talk shows. Yeah! Death of Election Talk shows may be far reaching but this product has a huge potential. Read more @ ... More About: Technology , Updates
Plans for Future!!!
2008-02-06 00:42:00 As an old proverb goes "If you fail to plan, you plan to fail". So it is time i come up with a few plans and goals for this blog. Yeah! I know that i am a bit late for 2008 new year resolutions. But it is better late than never! :)Photo Source: sweetness6Plans : Meta morphing http://robinsamuel.blogspot.com to an India-centric Opinion blog with less and less personal stuff.Goals:Reaching 100 Subscribers by RSS/Email by the end of year 2008Hitting the 200th Post mark before the end of 2008 which roughly translates to 9 posts every month hereafter. [My last post was my 100th post] Want to get regular updates from this blog, either submit your email id at the topmost right hand corner of this blog or click RSS Feed to subscribe in your RSS Reader. More About: Future
100th Post
2008-02-05 15:11:00 In Cricket, Nnineties however important it is, can never match the aura of a hundred. We still recall how Dan Bradman missed a career average of 100 runs by just 4 runs. The number 100 is special to all of us including me... We all would like to live to a magic age of 100...But why all this hullabaloo about number 100?Simple Reason: This is the 100th post to be published in this blog - http://robinsamuel.blogspot.com. The blog has evolved and grown in the mean time. From just being a space where i write some idiotic stuff about myself, it has metamorphosed itself into an India-centric Opinion blog with less and less personal stuff.Rather than writing something new to make this special post extra-special, it would be better if i pick out the five best posts of mine in earlier 99 posts... [It also serves the purpose of informing the new readers of this blog of my earlier posts :) ]1. In Service for Sight - This post is special because it is the first post in which i moved from persona... More About: Post
Tirunelveli-an making News in Global Tech World!
2008-02-03 12:26:00 When another Tirunelveli an makes news in the global tech world, how can i remain silent?When I saw the news about Seattle based Global Scholar in Tech crunch, i disregarded the news on seeing the headline. But my whole perception towards Global Scholar changed today on hearing that Kal Raman, CEO of Global Scholar was from Tirunelveli (Thanks to Kiruba's Blog). How exciting it is to hear about another person from your native making news in the global tech world!!!My 2 Cents to Investors Ignition Partners and Knowledge Universe: Never, ever, worry about $42.5 million invested in Global Scholar. Just remember that we, the Tirunelvelians are born with the gene of business. :DP.S: Incidentally, Kal Raman also graduated from CEG, Anna University More About: News , World
Kudos to Dominique Lapierre
2008-02-01 20:21:00 Padma Bhushan, Padma Vibhushan, Padma Sri... Until now, my opinion was that these awards reveal the influence wielded by a celebrity in the government... Even the esteemed Bharat Rana was added to this list, when every Tom, Dick and Harry started suggesting their own 'corrupted' party leaders for Bharat Rana. [Read what happend when NDTV ran an opinion poll that included 'Picasso of India'] But all these perceptions changed when i found one of my favorite writers - Dominique Lapierre (a Non-Indian) on the Padma Bhushan awards' list. Read the news here.A French author, who by his casual way of writing and his extensive research on the subject(historical events) captured my heart. A writer, who by his books, changed my outlook towardsLast few days of India under British rule and Early days of Indian government(Freedom at Midnight)History of a nation created out of nowhere(O Jerusalem!)French Liberation and how a NAZI commander saved Paris for eternity(Is Paris Burning)Slums ... More About: Kudos
Kudos to ISB!
2008-01-29 11:31:00 Finally an Indian B-School finds itself among the Top 20 B-schools of the world. [That too in a ranking released by the reputed financial newspaper "The Financial Times"]. Surprising News - it was ISB and not IIM - Ahmedabad that finds itself in the elite list. Indian School of Business surely deserves accolades for putting Indian education sector on the global map. In doing so, ISB has provided right wing politicians an example to point out how seemingly impossible task by the government becomes possible with a few committed individuals.One thing that caught my attention, when i read the news in The Hindu, is the length to which the Deputy Dean of ISB, Mr. Ajit Rangnekar went to point out that there could be no comparisons between Indian School of Business and IIMs since they were in different market segment. But still all the management institutes (IIMs & ISB) approach the same group of corporates for recruitment... And this ranking will surely sky rocket its brand among... More About: Management , Kudos
Indian children are not safe
2008-01-28 15:46:00 It has been a long time since i was reduced to tears on reading something. But this unthinkable happened on reading the report from Ministry of Women and Child Development on Child Abuse in India - 2007.A few statistics from the report that shook meTwo out of every three children were physically abused53.22% children reported having faced one or more forms of sexual abuse50% abuses are persons known to the child or in a position of trust and responsibilityEvery second child reported facing emotional abuse48.4% of the girls wished they were boysOn reading the report, my first reaction was to to discredit the report rather than accept the precarious situation, the children of our country live in. For those(like me) who could not accept the fact that the report could be reflective of the true situation, here are a few facts:Survey was conducted among 17,220 people and in 13 statesFocused Group Discussion and One to one Interaction were the technique used to collect data among children... More About: Children , Indian , Safe
Things You Must Know - Kiva
2008-01-23 21:02:00 Similiar to Facebook that revolutionized social media, Kiva has revolutionized the micro finance industry. Recognized by many experts as one of the major things that would change the future of the world, it is time Kiva finds a mention in Indian media. While Nobel Peace Prize Winner Muhammad Yunus showed to the world that small loans could change the life of poor people, Kiva brings the advantages of technology and globalization to the micro finance industry.What does Kiva do?Through its website, Kiva lets you and me to connect with and loan money to unique small businesses in the developing world. By choosing a business on Kiva.org, you can "sponsor a business" and help the world's working poor make great strides towards economic independence. Throughout the course of the loan (usually 6-12 months), the sponsor receives email journal updates from the business they have sponsored. When the loans are repaid, the sponsor gets his loan money back (but withou... More About: Things
Interesting News - Speedlinking
2008-01-22 19:57:00 A few news items that helped me to smile even amidst the gloominess caused by the stock market crash:With the stocks crashing all over the world, each person/organization had their own reaction... Our Finance Minister P Chidambaram tried to assure the market of the India n growth story... US Fed cut its interest rate... Financial experts advised the investors not to panic... But the cops from Ahmedabad had the most interesting reaction... Their reaction to stock market crash: Secure Ahmedabad's largest lake... Wanted to know why, read 'Market Crash: Cops secure Ahmedabad's largest lake'Someone living in India is used to hear frequent press statements from opposition party leaders demanding the resignation of the ruling party on matters of little public interest. But this one is the icing on the cake. Jayalalitha seeks CM's resignation for death of cowsWhile the Indian media trumpeted the 'Triumph of Justice' in Bilkis Banu's case, a relative of one of the accused comes with t... More About: News , Interesting , Current Events
NDTV Office Attacked in Gujarat
More articles from this author:2008-01-19 23:09:00 Ahmedabad Office of NDTV, India's largest private producer of news and current affairs, has been vandalized by a Hindu fundamentalist group. Not because the NDTV reported wrong about the group... Not Because they hurt the religious sentiments... Not even because NDTV sided with the minority groups... It was just because they included "Picasso of India" as one of the contestants in their opinion poll for Bharat Ratna, . Read the news here.While some of the experts may use this incident to point an trend of increasing attacks of Hindu fundamentalist parties and their high intolerance, I am left numb with the question: How can a group get the courage to attack the regional office of India's largest television Production House? Is not the same courage that emboldened the Congress members to attack the Sikhs after the death of Indra Gandhi? Is it not the same courage that emboldened BJP & Shiv Sena to attack the Muslims during Gujarat & Mumbai Riots respectively? Is not the sa... More About: Attacked , Atta 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |



