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Is this the 2015 Mustang? /not!
2012-05-09 22:59:00 2015 Mustang mania has befallen the press…tons of speculation, not a single fact (except an EcoBoost 4 as the base engine), and now a PhotoChop. Here’s the ‘chop making the rounds this week under the headline “Future Vehicles: 2015 Mustang“. We’ve already seen discussions in various forums where some people are saying this is a ...
2015 Ford Mustang Info
2012-05-08 16:54:00 www.ZerCustoms.com - New information regarding the future generation 2015 Ford Mustang surfaced the w... ...
By: ZerCustoms
Subaru BRZ vs 2013 Ford Mustang V6
2012-05-04 14:09:00 www.ZerCustoms.com - Here's an interesting, but pointless comparison test. Why pointless? Because the... ...
By: ZerCustoms
T-minus Two Years: Mustang 50th Anniversary Celebration Planning
2012-04-25 16:00:00 To show just how much Mustang fans are looking forward to the 50th anniversary of the pony car, still two years away, the Mustang Club of America announced this week that it will coordinate a bi-coastal bash for the 2014 birthday celebration. While previous Mustang anniversary celebrations ha
Lost Mustang History: Ford Designs an SLA and IRS for the SN95 Mustang
2012-04-21 17:36:00 The SVE Mustang King Cobra (1994) and the SVE Super Stallion (1997) were two Ford engineering exercises built to explore modernization of the SN95 platform by the addition of state-of-the-art SLA (short-long arm) and IRS (independent rear) front and rear suspensions. Ford knew that the SN95 platform, with architecture originally designed in the mid-seventies for the 1978 Fairmont, couldn’t ...
2013 Ford Mustang review,
2012-04-18 13:48:00 The new 2013 Ford MustangThe- modern evolution of the Mustang continues with the new 2013 model, with a Mustang that delivers on style, substance, a new exterior design, updated technology and new driver tools.2013 Ford Mustang photo?The new Mustang is the perfect example of continuing to build on excellence,? said Dave Pericak, Mustang chief engineer. ?It takes the greatness of the 5.0-liter and V6 and pushes refinement to the next level. The car has been spot-on functionally, and now we?re adding more features and technology to further improve the driver?s experience.?2013 Ford Mustang photoMore aggressive designFor the 2013 model, which goes on sale this spring, the front end of the car offers a more aggressive design with a significantly more prominent grille. A more powerful splitter adds to the appearance. Functional heat extractors on the hood of the GT are specifically placed and designed to help move hot air out of the engine compartment and cool the engine.2013 Fo...
Next Ford Mustang To Ditch Retro Look In Favor Of Futuristic Evos Styling?
2012-04-17 00:33:00 From Autoblog: Matt Ramsey from The Wall Street Journal claims that the next-generation Ford Mustang will be ditching its '60s-inspired retro styling. Citing people familiar with Ford's plans who have seen the new Mustang, Ramsey claims the new model will look more like the 2013 Fusion a
Do you have an inner Mustang?
2012-04-04 17:34:00 I love sharing a good car commercial, and this is one of my current faves. The best part is the end with the little girl in the pink ballerina outfit. Yep, everyone has an inner Mustang. … Especially if it’s a 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500, which comes out this summer. Sigh... Read more »
Free copy of Mustang Magazine
2012-03-29 14:07:00 http://mustangmagazineonline.co-m/content/test-drive
By: Free Stuff Times
USA Today rates the Mustang SVO as one of the Top Ten Ugly Cars
2012-02-06 19:30:00 And 4 of the top ten are Ford Motor Company products. While we might agree on the obese MKT, we take strong issue with the idea that the SVO was ugly at all, much less a top ten. Mustang SVO owners and enthusiasts: time to stand up for our favorite Mustang. Go to the USA ...
Near disaster in buying our first new car
2012-01-15 17:31:00 Most driving enthusiasts have a “first brand new car” story they like to tell. Here’s one of mine, where I was saved from a terrible fate with some last-minute and almost miraculous news. In 1978, I went to a local Ford dealer to test drive a brand new Mustang. The salesman eagerly trotted me out to the ...
Justin Bieber Gives Best Friend a Brand New Mustang for Christmas
2011-12-28 02:29:00 Justin Bieber is the best BFF EVA! The 17-year-old pulled out all the stops this Christmas when he gave his best friend Ryan Butler a brand new car. “Justin got me a present. #swag!!!” Butler posted to his Twitter along with a picture of a new ivory two-door Ford Mustang Convertible. Justin Bieber & Stevie ...
A Hydrogen-Powered, Joystick-Controlled Mustang
2011-11-16 15:00:00 As the countdown continues to the grand opening of the LeMay - America's Car Museum next April, and as a select few cars are already being transferred to the new facility, many more vehicles in the LeMay collection still sit in a warehouse-like setting, literally stacked one atop another, awaiting
All about the missing Mustang IRS
2011-09-04 02:00:00 We’ve written extensively on this topic before, but the October 2011 issue of Motor Trend spurs us into action yet again. Their topic is the upcoming 2015 Mustang, which they say will be an evolution of the current chassis, with the IRS added that was originally cancelled at the last-minute by Ford executive Phil Martens ...
Ford introduces new design language? and could it be the face of the 2015 M
2011-08-31 00:56:00 Ford introduced its new design language today, as part of the rollout of concepts for the Frankfurt show. It’s aggressive, there are no chrome bars, it leaves truck styling completely behind, and it’s all Ford. The “Evos” concept is the most important concept Ford has created in many years. And just look at it! We’re intrigued: ...
Ford, Toyota to Collaborate on Developing New Hybrid System for Light Truck
2011-08-22 17:52:00 Interesting press conference this morning (live) at Ford, with Derrick Kucak of Ford and Takeshi Uchiyamada-san of Toyota. The subject of a hybrid system for light trucks and SUVs – specifically identified as rear-wheel drive – obviously means the F-150 and Expedition, which currently share major platform architecture (the Expedition is most likely in the process ...
1967 Ford Shelby Mustang Pictures
2011-08-18 18:02:00 We have just added some truly stunning Shelby Mustang images to the Automotive Art collection. Taken by Tim Wallace, these photographs show the classic American muscle car in its truest sense ? powerful, classy and timeless. The 1967 Shelby Mustang is a legendary muscle car built by Ford between 1965 and 1970 and the GT500 was the pick of the class. The name Shelby comes from Carroll Shelby who was famous for taking Ford cars and upgrading them into something powerful and exotic. Tim Wallace has always produced exceptional car imagery and these pictures continue the style that has made Tim such a sought-after car photographer. If you are a fan of American muscle cars and the 1967 Shelby Mustang GT500 then these prints will look great on your walls as either canvas print, acrylic print or poster print. Click on an image to see a larger picture and see our purchase options. Classic Muscle Mustang Muscle Shelby Mustang Shelby GT500
Visit Ford at the Woodward Dream Cruise this Friday
2011-08-17 12:22:00 Ford has always had a very strong presence at the Woodward Dream Cruise and this year will be no exception. But there are dark clouds over Ford due to quality issues, for for enthusiasts very dark clouds over the Mustang because of the MT82 disaster. Nonetheless, Ford will be showing them, broken transmissions and all. ...
GM reacts to Ford?s MT82 problems
2011-08-17 00:46:00 And while the T-56 and TR6060 trans haven’t always been perfect, GM has always stood behind them. It makes sense to develop a transmission that is rated higher than the torque capacity of the engine. Ford choose an off-the-shelf Getrag that was rated lower than the torque capacity of the new 5 liter engine. And while ...
Ford Mustang BOSS604
2011-01-09 13:07:00 This is an infamous John Coletti project car, built by Ford’s SVE group in 1995. Only SVE could have built something like this! Full gallery of detailed images: http://www.drivingenthusiast.ne-t/sec-blog/?page_id=9541 The SVE BOSS 604 was built in response to a challenge from the bowtie boys across town. They had just put a 572-cube 770 HP Donovan ...
Car Lust blog covers the Mustang SVO
2011-01-03 12:51:00 One of my regular reads, Car Lust, covered the Mustang SVO in a long review a few days ago that I somehow missed. It was a good article, covering all the basics of the car. But it wasn’t written by somebody who actually owned one – someone who was there at the time, spent the money, and ...
Ford Develops the Mustang SVO at Nelson Ledges
2010-12-30 12:20:00 June 1982 and 1983 All text and photos copyright Jeff Fisher, and cannot be used or reproduced without explicit permission. Introduction Ford did an extraordinary thing back in the early 80s – and very few people know about it anymore. Engineers from the Mustang development team took their engineering prototypes to Nelson Ledges to accelerate ...
2011 Ford Mustang GT on winter tires - It Can Be Nice To Fool Mother Nature
2010-12-27 02:05:00 The payoff of the winter tires is taking an otherwise un-driveable Ford Mustang GT out in the winter snow and ice and teaching Mother Nature a thing or two.
History of the Ford Mustang
2010-12-17 19:32:00 History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of the Ford Mustang History of
By: AutoShow
Press Release Analysis: Ford buys BMW; 2011 Mustang benefits
2010-10-03 09:06:00 Incredible news that just came across the wire: Ford will buy BMW. And, just as Jaguar and Lincoln often swapped styling elements, the new Ford division BMW has been ordered to adopt Ford retro styling clichés in order to grow market share and better reach into the new and ”untapped” markets of Thailand and the Philippines. The SVT M3 will be ...
J Mays talks Ford Design at the Paris auto show
2010-10-02 13:52:00 Several interesting questions were sent to J Mays at the Paris show, and the topics ranged from Kinetic design to the next Mustang. Listen carefully, because there are some hints here is a next-gen Mustang showcar in 2013 and a production car in 2014. Related Posts on DrivingEnthusiast.netSeptember- 10, 2010 -- Ford screws us over ...
2010 Ford Mustang
2010-09-21 23:37:00 The 2010 Ford Mustang is finally here! And with it comes exciting new features that are sure impress both die hard Mustang fans and people who are just getting acquainted with this American legend. The Mustang has for years been recognized among quality cars that boast modern characteristics while retaining a classic appearance. This year, ...
By: Vehicle Ride
2010 Saleen S281 Mustang
2010-05-12 14:13:00 While details are limited, the S281 features a unique body kit with a new hood, grille, front fascia, side skirts, and rear window louvers. Out back, the car boasts a sleek spoiler, a rear diffuser, and an aggressive four-tailpipe exhaust system. The 2010 S281 has a healthy 485 horsepower and 460 lb-ft of torque on ...
GM targets Ford Mustang with upgraded V6 for 2011 Camaro
2010-03-25 10:06:00 The power war between GM and Ford is continuing, as a new report indicates that GM is preparing to issue an upgrade for the Camaro’s 3.6-liter V6 engine, in order to better rival the Ford Mustang’s new V6. In case you don’t know, the current Chevrolet Camaro outputs 304 HP and scores 29 mpg in highway ...Post published on Rpmgo.comGM targets Ford Mustang with upgraded V6 for 2011 CamaroRelated posts:2011 Ford Mustang V6 rated 31 mpg highway, most efficient 300+ model The fierce battle between muscle cars has been waged...2011 Ford Mustang 5.0-liter V8 officially detailed Even though the embargo was broken last week, Ford...2011 Ford Mustang gets 5.0-liter V8 with 412 HP Great news for Mustang lovers, as thanks to some...
By: RPMGO.com
Dearborn?s Camaro-Eater: The 1970 Mustang Boss 302
2009-12-22 06:01:00 The last rose of summer. That's what Jacques Passino of Ford racing fame called the Boss 302. "the engine and the car did more than we could have expected it to do It was a winner, it was a good car, a good street machine. But I guess you could call it the last rose of summer, because right af
Shelby Cobra tops 2009 IACOCCA Ford Mustang at the 2009 Barrett-Jackson Aut
2009-10-12 04:11:00 So what did $500,000 dollars get you at Auto Auction?Over the past several years, enthusiasts have been invading all of the Barrett-Jackson Auto Auctions looking to buy their dream car. However with the tough economy right now that let’s face it will continue for years to come, I wondered just what some of those incredible automobiles would sell for in front of a huge bidding crowd.Over the past three nights, enthusiasts saw not bargain prices, but reasonable prices. The prices that people, yes even in this economy can afford and that is a good thing. For me, a car enthusiast, ever since I was five years old, I’ve loved cars from a cool Corvette, a 1987 Buick Grand National, a 1969 Ford Mustang, a 1955 Chevrolet Nomad, a 1971 Plymouth HemiCuda, to a 2008 Ford Mustang, a 2010 Chevrolet Camaro or a Shelby and watching people showcase cool cars on television definitely gets my attention.So after all of that, what did $500,000 dollars get you at the 2009 Barrett-Jackson in Las Vegas...
HST Intl - all-electric Mustang with 1000 ft/lbs of torque and a 0-60 time
2009-08-15 20:51:00 HST International is still here... they changed their domain and didn't have the old one forwarded (dumb!). Go to: http://www.hstintl.com/ Be sure to download the brochure: http://www.hstintl.com/tjaarda_-evx.pdf Their announcement last year and demonstration of all electric Mustang (how about a Mustang with 1000 ft/lbs of torque and a 0-60 time of 3.9 seconds?) made headlines - as it should. This is the long term future of cars in general... and with the right kind of development electrics could have the same or more performance potential than gasoline powered cars. Let's face it, folks, a move to this technology is coming - and we need to learn how to master it. These folks mastered the art of building one, now lets see how they master the art of staying alive in this economy. Reference: original blog posting and press release: http://www.drivingenthusiast.ne-t/sec-blog/2008/04/17.html#a237-0
Speaking of the 2011 Mustang GT...
2009-08-13 04:19:00 Car and Driver came across some interesting Ford test cars recently: http://blog.caranddriver.com/20-11-ford-mustang-gt-an-even-more--potent-track-pack-to-complemen-t-the-400-hp-5-0-liter/ What to make of this? It takes Ford 5 liters to make 400 horsepower, and the beemer makes 17 more with only 4 liters. The beemer costs a heckuva lot more... but has considerably more capability. The "Track Pack" is attaining mythical qualities that it doesn't deserve at all... it's nothing more than a couple of things anybody making a Mustang into a track car would do (tires & suspension) on their own. In fact, it's less - because it's riding too high, and it has inadaquate brakes. The cure for the front brakes is easy - but there is no cure for the tiny rear brakes. Well, there was, but Ford cancelled it. At least the Mustang GT isn't as poorly endowed as the Taurus SHO, which very literally is "smoking" in road tests - smoking it's brakes as...
Iacocca Mustang - good for him and bad for Ford
2009-08-13 02:19:00 Have you seen the special 45th anniversary Mustang that Lee Iacocca brought out? This was on his own, apparently without Ford. It’s based on the old ’09 body style, nicely cleaned up. I do appreciate the freedom and what-the-hell attitude embodied in a Mustang, and I do like driving cars like this. I really like this video! The soundtrack choice is perfect - and at the point he lights it up I was clapping (and Sinatra fans will appreciate the reason and timing of that particular point). Good touch of humor at the end. Entirely professional and very well done camera work. And of course a great stunt driver. You can feel how the car catches as it does the 180 in the tunnel - and when the camera pulls back you feel it as though you're there. I'd like to see a documentary on how this video was made. Now for my comments. You'll notice there were multiple takes on the drift thru the intersection - look at all the marks on the pavement. I know that ...
Magnaflow Cat-back Exhaust Install on Ford Mustang
2009-08-04 10:52:00 Over a year and 29 episodes ago, MOTORZ TV started with a pilot episode where we installed a Magnaflow exhaust on our project Ford F-150 pickup truck. Man, a lot has changed since then. It was called "Truckblog TV" back then, a spinoff concept based on my truck blog called Truckblog.com. I
Ford Designs Another Custom Mustang for Experimental Aircraft Association?s
2009-07-26 05:10:00 Last year Ford revealed a custom built one-off Mustang known as the AV8R. It was specially built as part of a fundraising campaign for the Experimental Aircraft Association's Youth Program and was unveiled at the 2008 Gathering of the Eagles. This year Ford has once again brought out a custom designed Mustang and is aiming to beat last year's benchmark of $500,000.
Ford Mustang Headlights: You Have to Do WHAT to Remove Them?
2009-07-13 23:45:00 We recently had the need to upgrade the headlights in our 2008 Ford Mustang project vehicle. Like most vehicles, we just thought we'd pop the hood, remove a few bolts and lift up on a few tabs. We wished it was that easy! After doing some research, we found that we had to remove
The Problem With Ford
2009-06-19 04:51:00 So here I am ranting on the problems of the Mustang again. From my last post, written with a furious pounding of the keyboard, it seems that I am having a case of deja vu about Ford yet again. It's a love/hate relationship in the end - one of those relationships you just have to walk away from because it's all a big drama and you realize the years are slipping by. Here's the problem with Ford: we like most of them, but when it comes to the ones that we really want to get passionate about, they just fail to measure up. It’s been 5 model years since the 2005 Mustang came out – and we still have the same old engines. Yea, sure, the 2011 will get the engines the 2005 should have had (Ford engineering has attempted to create a DOHC 5 liter twice in the last ten years!). 6 years will have passed to get just one step forward! The 2010 has gotten a few bandaids - - they’ve juggled the bushings in ye olde solid axle a bit, offered a "track...
More on the S197 Mustang IRS
2009-06-19 04:24:00 Motor Trend's blog talks today about the IRS suspension that was developed for the S195 (2005) Mustang: http://blogs.motortrend.com/652-3204/auto-review/2010-ford-must-ang-near-enough-is-not-good-eno-ugh/index.html They've got a couple of points wrong in their article, but by and large it's right. My own involvement with the IRS Mustang begins in 1999, when I took delivery of the 1st or 2nd IRS-equipped Cobra in Texas. And I took delivery of another in 2003, with the improved IRS (thicker half-shafts, and very much improved bushings). Both cars were so good on the track - especially my 2003 (with 2000 Cobra R springs and shocks) that I swore I'd never do another solid-axle Mustang. I spent some considerable time talking to the designed of the SN95 IRS suspension and learning form him what it would take to make it work on the track (start with doubling the spring rates, for one). Like Joe over at My Ford Dreams http://myforddreams2.blogspot.c-om/2009/06/real-reason-05-and-f-orwa...
2011 Mustang engine news is actually old news
2009-06-17 10:57:00 The web is all a-twitter this week about the upcoming Duratec V-6 Mustang. That, folks, is not news - it's been the plan all along and only lack of funds has held it back. One fanciful site went to far as to suggest that some sort of complex "engineering" was taking place to convert the transverse Duratec to rear wheel drive. Couldn't be more wrong - a rear wheel drive version of the new V-6 has existed all along. In fact, it was the very first version of the new Duratec engine that was shown to the public! Here's the picture: and it's clearly a rear wheel drive configuration. The engineering was done a long time ago when the engine was originally created. Shortly after the Duratec 3.5 liter engine went into production for North American models, Mazda started using it in their CX-9 crossover. In the second model year of that vehicle, the engine was bumped to 3.7 liters - well before Lincoln started using a 3.7 liter variant. A 3-mm increase in bore is all it ...
Barrett-Jackson to sell the Mustang GT Concepts
2009-03-21 16:39:00 The Ford Mustang GT Concepts were built by Ford in 2003 to preview the all-new 2005 Mustang. Both cars were based on the off-the-shelf Thunderbird chassis of that time. The silver coupe was powered by a 4.6 4V DOHC 4.6 liter V-8 with a supercharger, taken from the 2003/4 Cobra (tidbit: that engine was going to be offered in the 20057 Mustang GT but was canceled during product review - perhaps because of excessive warranty claims as a result of severe quality issues), and used the stock 6-speed Tremac manual transmisison. The red convertible was powered by a standard Thunderbird 3.9 liter V-8 and 5-speed automatic transmission. Both cars are shown below at their unveiling at the 2003 Detroit show. As this posting is written, 6 years later, it's even more clear then ever that these are the cars Ford should have built. The 2005 Mustang, and it's 2010 freshening, look ancient compared to these. And the T-Bird chassis (with it's all aluminum independent SLA s...
Motor Trend tests the Genesis, Mustang GT, and 370Z
2009-03-20 19:25:00 Here's an interesting video from Motor Trend with the latest comparison of the Genesis coupe, 2010 Mustang GT, and the new 370Z. The Z comes out on top in every classification, except for it's lack of a back seat. Keep in mind that the base prices of these cars make for a nearly linear progression across a range of several thousand dollars, so potential buyers may have price as their first order of business. This is a drag race test, and a drag race is only 1 indication of overall performance and dynamics - and is certainly not the most important test for true driving enthusiasts. However, the results here do line up with the results we've seen to date on the other performance aspects of these cars. No surprise on the Genesis: it's dynamics are lousy. It's hard to see good in this car, other than as a first attempt. When will it be updated? Is continuous improvement too much to hope for? The Mustang is little different from the 2005/up model: the interior is i...
AmericanMuscle.com - I Can Draw Mustang Contest
2009-03-20 16:24:00 Have Your Kids Draw Your Mustang and Win A Cervinis Lil C500! So you think you can draw? Too bad! Cause this contest is for the kids! And for once we are talking about actual kids, and not just those of us that are kids at heart. This month the AmericanMuscle.com contest will tempt to get the entire family involved. Not only will this contest require the elder Stang enthusiasts involvement, but it will also require the participation of some of our younger followers. And what better way to get your son(s), daughter(s), nephew(s), niece(s), grandkid(s), neighbors kid(s), to put their "artistic" skills to the test, then by drawing a picture of your Mustang. You might ask yourself, how will I get these kids to help and why would they want to do such a thing? Because we are giving away a Cervinis Lil-C500 Mustang PowerWheels that's why! To check out more information on the contest, check out the American Muscle Blog. Instructions for submitting your entry are also there.
By: My Blog
Mustang wheels for sale on Craigslist... with bonus trailer trash
2009-01-27 01:15:00 AutoWeek, January 26 2009 issue, reports the following Craigslist ad: MUSTANG WHEELS I have a set of FR500 for a fox body mustang and I’m not sure what they go for? So I guess I’ll take $200.00 I also have what I was told are ponys $100.00 I need this stuff out of my bedroom, I kicked out my boyfriend after he got me and my mom drunk and had sex with us both. And now both of us are pregnant! We know who the daddy is. Make this stuff go… or if you are looking for a girlfriend I may give them to you if we hook up.
Muscle Car Factory Mustang
2009-01-26 22:55:00 One of the things that really grabbed my attention at the Victorian Hot Rod Show on Friday was this Mustang Fastback. The thing that I really liked was that it was not any old Mustang. In fact it's not old at all, it's brand new! The Muscle Car Factory is offering turnkey '67 Fas
Ford Coyote 5 liter V-8 for Mustang and F-150
2009-01-25 03:26:00 An alert photographer has caught the first glimpse of Ford's heavily revised modular motor, code-named "Coyote". While Ford hasn't made any official announcement of this engine, it is known to have been designed for the Mustang, F-150, and the now-canceled all-new rear wheel drive platform. The Australians have also made reference to it. This is a double overhead cam 4-valve V-8 engine of 5 liters displacement (-not 4.9 liters as in the former OHV iron-block "302"). It's got coil-on plug ignition and a single-inlet aluminum intake manifold. It may have direct injection as well, but that's not clear from this photo. It may also have variable cam timing on the intake cam or both cams - the only indication of that is the two cam sensors on the top front of each head. It's also clear that the front engine cover is recessed back into the engine (to keep the overall length short), just as in the 3.5/3.7 liter V-6. It's believed the engine will produce 400 HP/400 torq...
1996 Mustang GT - Front Bumper Cushions
2009-01-23 01:32:00 Where can I get the foam cushion that mounts under the front bumper?
Million Dollar Mustang on eBay
2008-12-29 20:07:00 Ok, so maybe it's not worth $1 million. It might not even be worth $4,000. But it doesn't hurt to ask, right? The following is from eBay. "This is a 1998 Mustang Roush which I had completely customized in September 2007. I believe the pictures describe how unique this vehicle is.
Heavy metal swap: Sherman Tank engine in Mustang
2008-12-27 04:28:00 We'll end the night on a ridiculous note... we've been reading about swapping various Focus, Contour and Taurus engines for the last couple of hours. Here's the ultimate swap: a Sherman Tank engine into a Mustang. Courtesy of YouTube, we get to see and hear it running. Yes, it might be possible to have too much engine... but it sounds SO good...! See the related videos on the YouTube site http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ilyGlrM1Q6A for more details on the engine. Now that we've brought up the topic of tank engine swaps, we expect that somebody will swap one into a Focus sooner or later ;-) That'll make that Boss 429 Ford EXP we saw way back in '92 or '83 look like a little kiddie toy. |
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